A site about Justice- Thenonconformer

do see also http://hiswallpaper.multiply.com/photos

I have replied to some of your rants here : [http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/09/11/a-woman-rides-the-beast/]

You claim to be a Pentecostal. You also call Dispensationalism a "heresy." That's a very strong term. If so, many Pentecostals are heretics - a good many of them are dispensationalists and proud of it.

I came from a dispensationalist background. I have moved away from many of its way-out claims, but still hold to its teaching about modern Israel being the fulfilment of prophecy. The Pentecostal movement, to which I have belonged for a number of years, holds that view just as fervently as the Brethren, in which I grew up, ever did, if not more so. You clearly don't have all your facts straight.

Anyway, here's the text of what I wrote, with minor modifications:

This reply is to “The Nonconformer.” I grew up in the Brethren. I now belong to a Pentecostal church, having left the Brethren some 20 years ago. I agree with the Nonconformer at some points, but beg leave to disagree at others. Some of what he says is right, but some of it is so wrong that I cannot and will not let it go unchallenged. I’m from New Zealand, so what I have to say about the Brethren here may or may not be applicable internationally.

The Brethren ARE NOT monolithic. Yes, many of the Brethren I knew in the past did oppose speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Spirit. Many, but not all. That was 20-25 years ago. Even then, there were notable exceptions. Can you believe that ONE OF THE FIRST people to encourage me with speaking in tongues was a deacon in my own Brethren assembly? I still have a multi-page letter he wrote me in 1983, explaining it scripturally and encouraging me to explore it. A Brethren deacon! No kidding. I did not learn to speak in tongues in a Pentecostal church, but in the Brethren. 26 years later, he’s still in the Brethren, still in good standing with them. Then again, there were others in that same assembly who were VERY wary of such practices. As i said, the Brethren are not monolithic - and even within a single assembly, there can be considerable differences.

In SOME sections of the Brethren movement, there was considerable movement in the 1980s and 1990s. The assembly at Te Atatu (in Auckland, New Zealand) embraced the charismatic movement. Brian Hathaway, from that assembly, became a household name in Pentecostal circles. I had the privilege of knowing Brian Hathaway (and no, his assembly wasn't the one I attended, and in fact I was no longer in the Brethren when I got to know him). He was one of the most humble men of God I ever knew.

Today? There are a number of Brethren assemblies in my own city (Auckland) that are openly charismatic. The largest Brethren assembly in New Zealand (membership - over a thousand) is of the charismatic persuasion.

The largest Brethren Assembly in Wellington, New Zealand took the lead in organizing a crusade with Greg Laurie, a Pentecostal evangelist, in 2008. I listened to recordings of sermons from that assembly in the leadup to the crusade. The same sermons could have easily been preached in the Pentecostal church where I am now - teaching about the Biblical basis for the supernatural and how to experience it in our own lives.

There is a Brethren bookshop not far from where I live. A good many of their books are by Pentecostal authors.

The Nonconformer has obviously had some acquaintance with Brethren in the past, but has equally obviously been away from them for some time. Contrary to his assertions, many if not most of the Brethren assemblies in my city DO allow women to participate in worship. One of the largest has female elders.

I think The Nonconformer paints with far too broad a brush.

As for dispensationalism: I am not a strict dispensationalist now. Neither are many of the Brethren I know. I DO most firmly hold to a distinction between Israel and the Church, however, and I’m proud to say that the Brethren are definitely NOT uniquie in affirming it. The Pentecostal movement, to which I have belonged for some years now, upholds that truth as fervently as the Brethren ever did.

To sum up:

YES, I have indeed met Brethren who match The Nonconformer’s description and make it look like an understatement. BUT I have ALSO met Brethren who make it look like an absolute caricature.

I have answered what I see as The Nonconformer’s misstatements and exaggerations on the basis of my own experience and observation. I have little expectation of changing his mind, however, as prejudiced people (and he seems to be one) tend not to respond to alternative ideas, even when those ideas are based on experience.

One other point: you seem to attack the motives of those you disagree with. That, in my opinion, comes very close to judging your brother, which is outlawed in the word of God. It is one thing to attack what you see as unbiblical beliefs, doctrines, and behaviours. But you cannot possibly know the motives of the people involved, and when you cross the line between opposing error and impugning motive, I think you are treading on dangerous ground. Be careful! Likewise, I've tried to be careful in this post: I've corrected some of what I see as your mistaken ideas, but I wouldn't dream of questioning your motives. I cannot possibly read your mind, and I'm not going to play God.

David.
Moonlight_Academy_DC@hotmail.com